lakeoffire says

Thanks for the tips. I have been guilty of the telegraphed raises from time to time. I do have an unrelated question. How do you feel about about making raises that look bigger than they are to steal in late position. If the blinds are 200/400 and you make it $699.99. It looks like a bigger bet and if someone comes over the top I saved myself some money. What do you think?
Lake of Fire

04/19/07

Spicoli says

Nice post. What type of buy-ins do you see these tells at--all levels, low buy-ins, the Stars Million, etc.? And do you see the same behavior in the cash games you play? Also, on the hand you reference, in cash games, I sometimes see the SB leading out for a small bet (<1/2 the pot) with a weak Q or underpair here. I find he'll routinely fold to a decent re-raise regardless of my holding. Do you see that in tournament play?

Spicoli

04/19/07

Adanthar says

These two particular ones come at all levels. #1 rarely shows up in cash games, but #2 is more common there if you're sure the player doesn't multitable.

I want to focus more on the general idea behind online tells and less on specific tells, though.

04/19/07

lakeoffire says

One online tell I find that's pretty reliable is the odd amount raise, like 999 when the blinds are 200/400. The idea seems to be to make the bet seem bigger than it is by using odd size chips. I'm mostly playing smaller tournaments (less than 50 bucks). Do you see that at higher levels?

LoF

04/19/07

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Thus far, my posts have dealt with how and when to play a hand in an unorthodox way. Most of the time that I play a hand in a strange fashion - especially postflop - I base it on some kind of read or some idea of what I want to happen on a future street. This is, of course, heavily dependent on reading my opponents' hands, and in my last post, I wrote about an example of an extremely narrowed down hand range when given a lot of information. Today, I want to go back to basics and talk about a few of the more simple online tells.

I frequently read about and occasionally talk to B&M pros who insist that it's much harder to read someone online than live. This is true, but only for a good player. Bad to decent players - in other words, the satellite qualifiers and midstakes players who are the bread and butter of the online tournament scene - often have some very basic tells that make it extremely easy to get their money.

Because I want to go on beating tournaments for a nice profit, I won't list all of them :) However, we can certainly talk about a couple of the more well known ones:

1)The Stars 4x raise tell

For whatever reason, Stars (and to a far lesser extent, Bodog/FTP) is home to a breed of player that insists on telegraphing his hand at all stages of an MTT. When this player has a regular hand, he or she will raise the usual 3x the BB. However, when the player isn't folding - and usually, when they have a monster - they will make it 4x BB instead, in an attempt to avoid being drawn out on. In fact, through observation, I've become fairly sure that when these players don't have a monster, it's only because they overvalue their hand; such a player might raise 4x of his 20xBB stack with pocket fives and instacall an all in, since, after all, he has to be a coinflip at worst.

Given enough luck, these players routinely make it deep in the biggest Stars MTT's. I also routinely see people ignore this tell and reraise over the top of EP 4x raises with outright resteals or with hands like 99-66, AT, and KQ. I firmly believe that this is a huge mistake, and have previously folded some huge hands to a single 4x raise from guys whose PT stats are on the tight side. When someone behind me decides to reraise after all and the 4x PFR's hand is shown down, I have extremely rarely been wrong - especially since, for reasons having to do with stack sizes and pot odds, it's very rare for a thinking player to fake this tell late in an MTT.

2)The timing check/call on the flop tell

The 4x raise tell is very well known in MTT's and tends to be a staple in AIM conversations between pros playing at Stars ("lol, this guy's raising 4x again. Thanks for making sure I don't double you up, I kinda liked my hand before this.") This next tell, however, is not as well known, and many people discount it as they do all online timing tells. In my experience, this is a mistake.

The reason usually given for people discounting timing tells is that the Internet distorts them, some people are playing 8 tables and up and just happen to act late, and so on. But most of the 'bad to decent' group doesn't play 8 tables, and many of them - especially the bad LAGs whose play style forces them into this particular tell all the time - feel they have to closely observe a table to do well. In other words, they usually act quickly...except when they check/call the flop with a marginal hand.

I'll be a little more specific and give out the hand that made me think of this tell as an article topic. In level 3 of a recent tournament I played, I raised 88 UTG with around 50 BB and was called by one player, the small blind. The flop came down Q53 with two spades, the SB checked, I bet 2/3 of the pot, the SB thought for at least 15 seconds or so and finally called.

What does the SB typically have here? Once in a while, he'll have a set or AQ and be deciding whether to call or checkraise, but this is rare. He never has a straight draw or a flush draw - both of those act much quicker - and rarely has any other queen (because to a bad player, any queen is the nuts on this flop and they'll always do whatever they want to do as fast as they can with their eyes bugging out.) So, most of the time, this is a weak hand unsure of where it is, such as an underpair (but not JJ-TT - on this flop, they call faster), the occasional AK, second or third pair and so on. While I would usually be unhappy with this check/call after an SB coldcall of a UTG raise, here, I was pretty sure I was ahead.

We checked through the offsuit 7 on the turn - I often bet again here but took a calculated risk that this player would bluff on the river - and he bet half the pot into me when the river was a rainbow T. I called and was shown Ac2c for a flopped backdoor flush draw, an overcard and a gutshot.

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So far, whether you've seen these before or not, this shouldn't be anything really new - almost everyone who's put in substantial time online has to have seen similar tells come from somebody or other. Next time, however, I'll talk about how and when to use tells to set up advanced plays.